Chris Whipple, documentarian and author of Gatekeepers: How the White House Chiefs of Staff Define Every Presidency and The Spymasters: How the CIA Directors Shape History and the Future, joins Lisa Birnbach to talk about transitions - more specifically, White House presidential transitions. What could go wrong? Just in case they also talk about the 5 Things that make their lives better.

Lisa Birnbach's 5 Things: 1. The Queen’s Gambit, 2. Christopher Krebs, 3. Getting a medical appointment, 4. Return of Shtisel on Netflix and watching The Crown, 5. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s Inauguration January 20.

Chris Whipple’s 5 Things: 1. Family, 2. Friends, 3. First Responders, 4. The Deep State, 5. The Crown .

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