] :  Good evening, agent. Good evening. How about how are you? Excited and really? Really good. What about you? I'm doing well today. It's a good day to be a domain investor. Yes, so good evening. Good evening, everybody. Or good afternoon or good morning depending on the place you are. 27 dot b e Live streams have started on the very, very first guest is one off the most positive. I would say the most positive. The main industry veteran and and investor page hug Green. Oh, ailment page. Do you remember the first domain name you bought? I dio it was in, I think 1997. And I wish I could say I bought a two letter and, uh and it would be awesome, but I I was doing a lot of stock market work and the movie Wall Street had come out. And there's a scene in the movie Wall Street where one of the key characters calls into the equivalent of the Wall Street Journal and they made up a navy, and he gives him this code word that says Blue Horseshoe loves Anna Kat Steel and Anna Kat Steel was a stock that the character was going to start buying stock in, and he wanted to kind of get the word out for everyone else to start buying stock in it. So that was his code word. Blue Horseshoe loves Anna Kat Steel. And so, as I looked at doing a stock research recommendation side, I thought, Wow, wouldn't blue horseshoe dot com be a fantastic thing? Because everybody in the stock market world had seen the movie and would recognize that? And so I went and I called network Solutions, or I went on the site Network Solutions, and I got blue horseshoe dot com and at the time they would reserve it for you. And there was a $35 your charge. So that's $70. And then I think there was, ah, $40 charge to set up an account. So that was $110 and they would mail you an invoice that you had been received and maybe send back a check or you fill it out with your credit card number. So you had reserved the name up front, and then you send that in, and so I had blue horseshoe dot com and sure enough. Over the next three or four years, I would call companies like during the first Internet bubble, I say. I just paid out from blue horseshoe dot com. No, that's a cool name. I love that movie. And so, you know, he gave you It really proved out to me the value of, ah, of a good domain name because I made in my company name and it gave me a new initial boost or that initial something to talk about before you just get into the Why are you calling or what do you want? And so it always gave me that that little thing to talk about on. But I got to inherit the power in essence of the global awareness both global, More US Awareness A Z The movie went around the world of blue horseshoe dot com, so that was probably my first one. I had some other investments at the time. I worked for a family office that had some investments in different companies, and I went ahead and got the domain names for those companies. So that was probably my start. Um, and that's probably about all I did is get some related company domain names from 97 until 99. Do you still hold the name? I don't I think I sold it, but I haven't used it for five or six years, and hopefully I sold it. There's always a chance I let it drop. But anyway, I you know, it became less a part of my life, but it's it's always my first love. So on at the moment you mentioned that you hold how many domains? Oh, no. We don't like to kiss and tell, but it's probably about 6500 names. And I'm probably down from, uh, maybe as many as 30,000 seven years ago. So, um, become much more focused. Not caring as high of a renewal is because of the competition in our space, about 6500. So now, now 6500. So 6500 on before that, Like a couple of years ago or more. You had 30,000. Yeah, that was probably my high marks. That's 300 k in the renewals. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's eight bucks a name, so that's 240 k. He cost me. Yeah, No. I mean, there's no doubt I when I had sold my two big names for millions of dollars, um, I could have kept doing in that space and I did with a couple names. But then I also saw I thought at that time there would be a lot more opportunity in my company, Joe Domains, which was Joe Domains domain names for the average Joe with the idea that we'd have thousands of people building websites on DSO. I tried toe put myself to have inventory in the places I thought people with websites. And now it's combining the domain name with a website builder and then they could pick what level of service they wanted. And so it's a lot what actually happened. You know, with the website building company, like Weeks and Weebly. People needed that second step. But, you know, those guys were given it to him for free. I wanted the charging for it s oh, yeah, it was a change of my business model to get that big. And as long as I was selling enough names to pay the Renew ALS, it was great. But it was really the increase in new players and new entrance. Maybe 2000. 12. 2015 where I knew I had to reduce the names I own. Wow. And how did you keep a nigh on them? Well, the most vital thing to me is a domain investor is an excel spreadsheet that I keep that has every name that I know. And okay, the reason I do that is I don't know what's missing unless I know what I own. And so I'm the only one that cares of that data is correct. And as much as you can download your list of what you wanna eat red destroyer and need to read Destroyer probably want you to own all their names that their company, because they could just say, Well, the way to organize your name's a zone of all in our company. But I wanted to be diversified. Andi. I knew that on Lee, I would know. So each month or maybe twice a month, I run a teach register ire a comparison of the names I think I have and the names that air there because between the new requirements, knew who is requirements? Bad data transfer not going through a name selling somewhere Someone hacking my account If a name disappeared, I may not know For a year to on dso for me I had to know So I keep it update When I buy a name I put in the cost I put in the day I buy it I put in the expiration day I categorized the name So if someone ever says, Hey, Page, do you have any sports names? I could just take my spreadsheet sort of by my sports category. And I've got a quick look at all my sports names. Okay, Most of the day, the most of the exchanges will let you search the words sports. But that's not gonna pick up football or basketball or across or something east fourth or something like that. So for me, I've gotta have the categories to know. And my categories sometimes can be the subject matter, like green or crypto or sports or and they can also be the purpose of the name is the second column have Is it a product? Is it a service? Is it a blogger form name? What I call a purpose name is the main quality of that name. that it's short, you know? Is it a four letter or a four number or something like that? And I want to be able to pull those up quickly. So I have different columns, and then it also tells me when I list my name's that say Do and after Nick and unstoppable, I have problems for that. So I know if my prices are the same. So really, that's, you know, it's great to man is digital product property. I don't have a warehouse. You know, I don't have shelves and shelves and shelves that use the product inventories. But to say that I could manage my inventory without any effort I think is a false hope. And so what? I'm working on my database. I just treat that like I'm walking around my floor of my shop with all my inventory except with me about it is with an Excel spreadsheet. I consorted all kinds of ways would be like sitting there and saying, You know what? Take all my inventory if it was physical inventory and sorted by price hide alot. You know what? I can do that like that, and I could see what are my most valuable names or load of high or expiring. So I'm going into it with an Excel spreadsheet that I keep on my own. And you still do that thing. Yes, it Z. It's funny because different things happen over the years, like right now, next year or this year is a leap year. And so it's funny is I have to change my system because normally when I renew a name that's 365 days to the registration. But someone who just dryers had 365 days, but most of them keep the same in date next year, which is actually 366 days. So this is a really my new thing, you know what I mean? But it's something where, when I'm managing them, then I've been through enough leap years to kind of know when this comes, and it's not a surprise. So for me, I've got I've gotta have them. I've just I've gotta have got to know what I own to be able to merchandise it marketed and make sure that it's it's selling because, say, the rumor that you could sell 1 to 2% of your names was actually true. That's based upon you. Optimizing. And each of the marketplace is the parking companies and all that stuff having your names for sale. So if you don't update the name servers on newly acquired names for three months, you've just lost 25% of the chance that someone could contact you through the landing page. So you're gonna even in a good world, that your names were worth being sold 1 to 2% of your portfolio. You've just cut yourself off there. And if you have them at after Nick, but you don't have them at Sejdiu or if you have them and you know, say you do and not afternoon, you've cut yourself, you've cut your ceiling of what could possibly happen. So for me, I've got to be able to track of it. And that's the They used to be a commercial here in the US a long time ago. This is me. Is the Ogi domain or going back so many years where they had a guy in the army and he would say, be all you could be and and there was a spoof of it where they said, be all you could be instead of crashing the beach or doing something heroic. You know, it was different military people, you know, swabbing the decks are cleaning the bathrooms or something like that. And they were just some of that work and domain ing on. Did you just have to be willing, you know, to do it and say, Yeah, this is the This is the job we have chosen. So you got to keep track of your names. How many emails do you get today? Approximately in total. I have to be honest. I hate emails, E so many of them that at some point I love me every email to be a sale. Okay, if the cost of doing business is a domain investor, is that you get a lot of emails. No problem. In fact, if I go to my spam folder, okay, there's no better way to find out what subjects are monetizing online than to go to your spam fold. Those people are only sending out spam mortgage refinancing insurance. Now there's a lot of adults stuff there that's, you know, in not rated for for kids, whatever, but But it does show you. You know what people are doing book marketing for, you know, how were they monetizing that? And so that's one of the reasons. And we'll talk about this later. I think that the emoji domains have such a positive thing is sometimes the adult industries and the dating industries leave the creativity. You know what I mean? In terms of techniques. And believe me, if I go in my spam folder I'm gonna see is emoji, emoji, emoji, emoji, emoji. Now, some of them are kind of tricky to figure out, but But, I mean, it's It's one of the things that tells me that hey there, they're not using them because they're done. They're all about metrics and data. And they're saying that this somehow works and because it works, were get included in our book Male. And so you know, you could learn something from it. So hey, it would be perfect if every email we got was on Lee good emails and intended for us. But, hey, if that's the cost of doing business, I could handle it. Emojis What is your favorite emoji like? The one that improves your click click through rate or or open rates or something. Um, you should have. Well, I'm not doing it. The when I see the most, I see the dollar sign a lot. I see. I see the 100 a lot. I see the e c the prayer a lot. Um, and there's a lot of them. I even see some. Which ones? I say I say a lot of them a lot, but you think about some different applications for him, Like the archery target. You know, if someone saying you know we're on target or, you know, meet your targets to meet your prospects. So it's interesting how the objects can convey something mawr than you could convey in a group of words, you know, instantly. So, you know, if I go to my email here, Okay. So here you've got a bunch of inappropriate ones, but you've got people using, uh, you got people using the arrow. You have people using the the sparklers, the, uh the hearts, the kisses, the hearts. So, I mean, that's just that's just one way. That kind of tells me, uh, on your musical can be out of that. Let's see if I can practice doing this now. I go, toe. Okay. Stop screen there we Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. So how many more domain names have? None. Emoji domain. Come on, their terrible. Come on. You guys don't wanna buy him. Don't buy any of them. They're never gonna work. Leave them appropriated. And you shouldn't buy him. You shouldn't bid against me and options to buy him. Um, I have hundreds. They are cheap. Uh, not really. There about 22 bucks a year to renew. You can get them for Used to be able to get him for five bucks. That go, Daddy. And, um now I think Go, Daddy's going to 10. You can still get him a domain cost club, which is a great registrar for five. And then the premium names. Single characters. Yeah, they probably aren't cheap for now. Um, because people are still trying to figure it out. So and which ones have you got? Which ones have you got? The top ones with the dollar sign. I've got the just just flying money was that It looks like a dollar sign. It's that a dollar? Yeah. Um and then got on and then goes toe dot What? Right now I just have it on landing page. I'll show you you want you want you want to learn a little about Emoji. Oh, absolutely. I know that you are deep into L. A. That you are deep into emojis. Let's do emotional. There's so many things we can touch. This is the thing that makes Emojis domain names different People's consume and use emojis on their phone. But domain investors and domain companies work on their laptop and their desktop. So when you're managing emoji domain names, you do it on your desktop or your laptop that people use them on their phone. So I would rather have something that people use on their phone. It's a little bit tricky to do on your laptop because this is where the future is, and this is where the world is, right? So the thing to remember about emoji domain names is that there's only certain domain names that have been approved to be emoji domain names under this group called the Unicode Consortium. And what that means is, when I go on my phone and I hit the little button on my keyboard, I have my letters, and then I have a button for the emoji. Now there's everyone that has a phone in the world, generally has the same set of emoji on their phone, so it's just like an alphabet that has about 1200 letters. Now you can download different fonts that make Emojis all look like there's an L. A font where they all look like they're in Los Angeles or people can make up emojis. But that's nothing more than images. You know, Just a series of images we're talking about here with Emojis is the same Emojis there on my phone and my device are on all the world's device. So if someone is on their browser bar and I just put the pepper one in here and they type in the pepper, they go to their browser bar. Put that up there, make sure the browser bar up there, and then they hit, um, the emoji button, and then all their emojis pop up and say they hit the pepper and then they go to dot ws so emoji domains aren't allowed in dot com. There is about 20 that were grandfather from a long time ago, so dot ws is the market leader for emoji domain names. I would guess maybe 90% of paid market share. There's one place that gives names out for free, and they have some. But their whole purpose is to give it to you free so you'll pay for the renewal. But that that's that TK or whatever. Anyway, so Ws, in my opinion, is the dot com of emoji domain. So you type that in, you type in the thing, and then you go and then you search. And what it does is it comes to my web page, which is just a for sale page that has the emoji in. So I'll do it on my desktop. Now I'm gonna share screen here. And that was that was the pepper ws That was pepper. Okay, let me see. Is it easy to find how easy it is under food? It should be about on the first row. Okay, let's see. So the foods Oh, good evening. Good evening, everybody. Yes, you are most welcome to ask Your questions will probably get to them at some point on the food. I've always Okay, So the right paper and then I have to switch back and dot w s with the c f t market dot com, and that's by landing page that says that domain names for sale. And if you look at the top of that, instead of sometimes you see the pepper. And sometimes you see what's called a puny code, which is a representation of that domain name, and you see my screen now. Yes, okay, so this is a site called Punic Odor. And if anyone out there is familiar with I D ends internationalized domain names where you can have domain names in the natural language of your country. So whether it's, uh, you know, the Slavic language, it's Arabic language. It's a Japanese language, the Chinese language. They take those characters, and they transform them into a, um, ask you domain name. What they do is it begins with the letters X n and then dash dash, and then it has a code. And that's the way that that domain name, even though it's in a different language and still connect with every device globally, every router, every browser, every Social media network and everything like that is it converts the domain name into something that the Internet can use an emoji are a language, and they have their own peut code system, just like Arabic or Chinese or Japanese. So what this at this site called punic odor dot com, a website put it on the wrong side on I put in the actual emojis here on the left, and then it turns them into a domain so that single pepper dot ws that's the way you interact on your phone. But the way the whole Internet sees it is X and dash Dash Z H h h dot ws. Now it's a regular domain name that can be bought and sold and transferred and held in your account. Eso. When you're doing administrative work for your emoji domain, you're using the puny code or the accent. But when people are finding it on the Web or you're putting it as a link in a social media message or more importantly, this is so important. The text. When you're putting it in text, you're putting in pepper. And that's not just a picture of a pepper that's actually your computer. Saying that that is for lack of a better word. A letter like a B, C D E and it can handle it. You know what I mean? It can handle it dot ws. And then a lot of times the Social Media Network will automatically make that a length, and people can click it and they'll go straight away. And that's different than having to highlight it and link to an image somewhere. So the key thing to remember is emojis are actually language. Each one of the emoji has has handled the same way as a letter is, um, normally or ideas globally. So it doesn't matter if you put in the Punic Code or the pepper ws, you'll still get to the same website. Andi. I did see that the pricing for the pepper is 1818 50. Yeah, I'll give you a couple 100 bucks off. Yes, so right now I probably sell Ah, lot of my single character's between 1000 and $2000 and I know that's not what they're worth. I know that's not what they're worth, their either worth a lot less if Emojis never take off or they're worth a lot MAWR. If you could literally one person in the globe who owns the Pepper ws that is an ultimate eagle thing. Toe own your own emoji absolutely come like it's like owning a letter. And so right now, one of the biggest use cases for Emojis is just people, technical people, designers coders that maybe you're doing a presentation at a conference and you just want to sign off on your contact. Me, you say, You know my home pages, you know, zombie robot zombie robot that ws. And again, it's just something to keep the conversation going and to kind of brand yourself your branding yourself with something that's on every smartphone around the world. It's the second most popular popular language in almost every country. So if I wanted to market globally ah, high cost, I wouldn't have to translate the name of my company around the world. It would be peppered w the pepper emoji that ws in every country. That's it. Now, when I try to speak in emoji, it's very difficult because I have to know the name of it. Hot pepper. Some people may call the red pepper, but emojis weren't made to be spoken to each other. They were made to go. Hey, you want to go out to dinner tonight. Let's go get some Mexican food pepper, you know, Pepper. And that conveys everything you want to convey. So I didn't have to speak it. I thought it, and I put it on my smartphone. So toe process it when you see it on a smartphone, you see it, you process it and you didn't have to go through speaking it as you do with all other domain names and asking characters and words. So to me, you could tell I'm kind of amped up about it. I look at this and I look at 350 million names that air in black and white, asking characters and I looked at thousands. Maybe that have been a still a lot that air in color, graphical their pictures. Not just it's not just a read A, but it's a picture. It's emotional. It's conveying mawr wrap up. You couldn't wrap up slightly amused, but not really in one letter. You know what I mean? It's more adopted by the youth. It's more adopted, probably by women and girls than men, not a market that has been traditionally as strong and domain names. I'll just say, you know and so and it's global and it's more of the future and its mobile instead of desktop. So that's what got me excited about emoji domains. And people say, Well, they're not working yet. I only want invest in them when they're working well, who does it, who does it. But when they're working and you're gonna you're talking about my singular character domain name. That's a single emoji. That's kind of where I'm betting now. I have a lot of two characters I have, like the home and the pizza for pizza delivery, the pizza and the football. I have a lot of doubles because if you think about it when you're poised to write an emoji like even the red pepper, it's not hard to go. Pepper, pepper, pepper. Happy, happy, happy. Some of them people aren't even used to seeing as a single emoji. If it's kissy face kissy face, you're gonna usually give it two or three or two or three hearts. You know what I mean, and you're not having to bounce around to find the second one. So I have a lot of two character and three character, especially the three character. There's just something about it where, like the two characters air Good for like I think I have the Chinese food box. I think I have tickets like tickets to a show. So I think for two that makes sense. You know you're going to get tickets for a show or a movie, but for some reason the three like I have the three sunglasses, which is not only in my cool I'm super cool. I'm cool, Cool, cool. So the three is kind of interesting. So that's where I'm gonna, you know, stake my claim. But I've also got to sell some of these. And that's why, even though some emojis air out there single characters for 75,000, I want to get him in the hands of people that can use them and market them. I sold the cricket emoji at the insect with sports commentator in Australia, and so I know that whether he just uses as his personal site or he starts doing some of his, you know, whatever he does, at least that's gotten in the hand of someone. It's a, you know, a commentator on cricket. So so he's a cricket commentator on he has got that that cricket player dot ws He's actually got eyes. They're a stick for cricket. I know. I'm using the wrong word. Um, yes, yeah. So he's got whatever that issue eso eso someone just different ones. So and the other thing is, I have wonderful conversations with customers. If you think one of the things were terrible at in the Dwayne industry is talking to customers for repeat business because most of the time they just needed one domain name. I got it, and they're gone. But if you were a stockbroker, you would follow up with your customer. How's it going? How's your year going? Things going? Well, can I answer any question? No. And so for me, if I am talking to people and you're like, what am I gonna pull out of the bag? Hey, what about those four letter domain names? You X P Q is a re a winner. You know, maybe that starts a conversation. Maybe it doesn't. But if I talk about emoji domain names, its's pretty interesting. And what about the flags? Have you got any flags? A couple trying to find the Latvian one for you. I know you do your work available for a while. It was available while it actually expires in February on I kept thinking I had it. I kept going. Do I just not know that I have it? And so But anyway, you know, I always thought with E. I always thought that that would be a great way to build a community around. Um, you know, I got a friend of mine has the USA flag, you know? I mean, he's got really, really high hopes for that one. And so I think I have I have Ah, it's all United Kingdom. I think I have Australia. Still, they have single emoji Australian flag. God, what's the price? I probably sold it for like, Well, I can't say because I know it wasn't as much as you think. There's probably 2 to 3000 or something like that. So you know, like you're saying it's either it's not worth it. It's not worth, but if you wanna buy some, come on down. But, you know, I think if I look around, where do I have the ability to Quinn topple my money? You know, make 10 times 100 times 1000 times may or may not happen, but is the same opportunity exists in Best e sports players dot com, which could be a great name. I could buy it for Reg Viet. Nine bucks. Maybe someone will pay me 4000. Maybe not. But there's 350 million doctor, not 350 million dot coms registered. Um, So anyway, it's one of the things I'm doing is eso What you'll see this year is we're gonna I'm gonna bring back my bog. I'm gonna post a lot of youth cases of people that are using their emoji in different ways. Um, gotta build some community around it, explain it because people you could tell them and they just don't get it. But when they get it, they really get it. And then investors only wanna buy what's a sure thing. So they're like, show me that everyone's buying emoji domain names and then I'll buy him, and I think that's an okay strategy. There's a lot of people that are really good at money management. I'm gonna move the sun up my face here, and so they would rather buy something that's proven it's proven and they can just use their financial capability by the best at a discounted price to someone needs liquidity. So I'm fine with that. But I've been better sometimes is a buy and hold sent my chest pieces on the table, allow the game to be played and see how I do so. I think emojis are never gonna work until they do. And when they do, I think everyone's gonna look back and go. How did we miss this? You know what I mean? How did we miss it? But people need to see. They can't dream it. They need to see it. So, you know, just like four letter names or letter names took four or five years to build up the liquidity that they had in 16 4007. You know what I mean? Because there was a lot of Doubters in the stock market. They call it climbing the wall of worry. But in these emoji domain names, when the single rare ones go away, they're gone. And when someone falls in love with them, it's not about money. Now, if you offer them $200,000 they probably like but if they've always equated themselves with either one of the characters of the Chinese New Year or an animal or expression or a face or the beach or, you know something, the plane and you're a pilot and you've got the plane dot ws one. You know it's gonna be hard to get it away from him, so but the biggest questions I get are so well, there must be a It must be, um, impossible to think of all the emoji domains you can register. But it's not because the only riel emoji domains or when the emoji has been approved by Unicode as official one that's gonna be on everyone's smartphone, everyone's social network. They're all using the same list, and that list grows Each year. They add about 40 or 50 each year. So it's an alphabet that's growing, and it takes a while when they announced the new ones and then they get approved and then they come out. And so it's not like anything else out there. And for a lot of people, this is This is a pet peeve I have with the domain industry. You guys have bought those names back in 94 95 96. It wasn't a sure thing that they were gonna work, you know what I mean? They took a big risk. Now a lot of people like that have done that. I made a bunch of money like, Oh, I'm not doing anything On the flip side, I have invested in a lot of new junk I've invested in. I invested in W s like, 15 years ago thinking it was gonna be the next dot com I invested in virtual property. I invested in we blow or something that was like a virtual world where you bought online digital capitals of and I mean, there's a lot of it with all that. Somehow I missed Bitcoin. I think I bought it when it was like $89 a share, $89. A big point. I sold it in 1000. I sold it in 1000. And I said, This is nonsense and I so I only left, but it's on the tape, but see if I'm right or wrong. So we're watching this video, and it's 2021 or 2022. Um, you know, it will be interesting to see how I look. Then how do you price your the my name's? That's a great question. I make it up just out of the thin air. You should. You definitely have some experience and knowledge on my culture. Well, there's no doubt that that the quality components of a domain name that arm or proven and liquid they're going to produce a higher price. There's no doubt that the market that you're in is going to produce a higher price. If if if I have engagement rings dot com, I've got an average selling price of 2 to 10 to $20,000. If I have key cups dot com, where they haven't telling price maybe $15 you know? So so I mean, there's obvious things that come into play when your pricing and domain name, but we're just making them up. And I think this is when I try to tell buyers, okay, when you pay a price, I really want to get this son out of the way here. Let's see, what's that when you buy a domain name and you're paying 505,000, but especially when you're paying 50,000 or 100,000 or 300,000. There is no book that you look up to say this domains worth that Everyone gets worried. It is over, taken by fear that they're paying too much, but someone that really know what knows what they're doing with the remaining. I could be incredibly low with my guests because I just imagined what I think the domain names work. So say I had cricket dot com the sport e. I was like, Oh, that's a sport. It's popular around the world I've heard, but I really don't know. So I, priced at 150,000, just made that up. You know what I mean? That's a buyer that has a global cricket network or is a travel company or uniforms or whatever. They know how much money they spend on marketing a year. They know how much money it's worth to them. You know, the owner domain name, so they're more likely to say, Sure, I'll take it. Is that the same how you decided the price will be for the guy dot com? Uh, so that's a good question. So for guy dot com. Yes, I just when I bought it. Um, it was for sale for quite a while and say do and they wanted 150,004 and they haven't had They had a lot of offers, but everyone was trying to get it for 1 10 for 1 20 for 1. 25 for, uh, you know, payments or how low will you go? You know, they would ask the broker what's the lowest the seller will take, right? And I understand that Smart. But if you think that you're buying a domain name that could be worth 10 times its price, you buy it at the buy it now does the seller can't go back on. There's a buy it now on a big time domain name and you like the price by it. Does the seller can't go back on it. So you bought it for 1 50 150,000 potential with the potentially. And then I said to the broker, I got it through. It was a good friend of mine and one of the best guys that Sadio ever I'll say, you know, I mean, I said, put it for sale for a million right now. Buy it now, the day I got it lifted. So it stayed at the same place. Yep, they didn't. Right now a million. Got an email. Your name is just sold for a million dollars. Bang. Yeah, but I was I was fortunate. E was It was The Lord blessed me with that sale. It was his providence. It happened. But it was also the very beginning of what we saw in the next seven or eight years where not only three letters were popular, but single words were popular. So here you had a single letter. I mean, three letter. Sorry. That single letter I got emojis on the Break three letter, which became the most popular domain name trend ever in the next 5 to 7 years after I sold it. It's a dictionary word, which was and still is maybe the most popular trend. And then, just like in seniors, which represented maybe 25% of the world's population, you know, based upon demographics and everything with guy, you had 50% of the world's population. Absolutely one domain name bank. So for me was a chance to duplicate seniors. Um, and it worked out great. And a story about that. What's that? And the story about that? A seniors? Yes. Funny when you ask about seniors, it got me thinking. Can I duplicate seniors again today and eh? So I went back into the same thing. I did my about seniors, and I only spent about 45 minutes doing it, so I haven't I haven't found any seniors dot com I could buy right now, but I had managed a, uh, kind of a private hedge fund during the Internet bubble. And when all the internet stocks went up and up and up, I thought I was worth, you know, 30 40 million bucks partners tonight. And and then we had one of the biggest search engines at the time, called Northern Light. And they were supposed to go public, okay? And they were gonna be worth a billion dollars, and they just missed the window of going public. You know what I mean? Where they were late. And then when you're late, you could never get out. Then they needed to raise money. So we end up losing everything in that investment. So we're a little bit of money left. E was doing my dot kids domain name business. And And I used to look on eBay every two weeks for doing it needs and I would search, hide alot. And when you search hide alot, you see a lot of people that have terrible domain names, so they put them for sale for a million dollars or five. So you got to go through a lot of frogs before you find the prints. But I saw their listing because there are no ways to get out of the domain. Your company, in this case, the company had raised three or $4 million tried to build seniors dot com couldn't do it. Uh, very typical of those days. They were left with police, someone to guarantee the least, probably. So they had to sell the company assets to pay off the lease. One of the reasons we work is so popular now as people are still scared about that, assigning a long term five year lease company goes under someone stuck with it. Anyway, that's inside. But oh, they had a buy it now. Price on it. I ended up negotiating it down, and it took a while for when I originally saw it listed toe finally by it months later. But you know, my folks were seniors at the time be trying to explain to them the Internet was difficulty, that I was good at it. I thought so. I thought I could have a site for all seniors, senior medical products, senior financial products, senior real estate products, senior dating senior equipment and the baby fluent becoming right at me and that this would be a great business to run. I still think it iss um, I would do it again today if I wasn't doing 6500 other names, but and so when I started going to the domain conferences, I'm sorry about that was one calling way, but, uh, I would start sharing my best domain name, seniors dot com, and so some people were high and that some people were low on it. But I was able to put myself in a position through the help of some other domain er's who I met who showed me how to monetize it. I was able to monetize it with parking income, which gave me the staying power develop. It threatened to develop, identified the market opportunity and the more I saw the market opportunity, the more my price in my head kept going up and up and up. So it went from being on hundreds of 1000 a half million dollar domain name to an $800,000 domain named a million dollar domain name. And and then it was like, Well, but I'm gonna sell it and I want to put it in auction. Monte Han, who's in my opinion, kind of started the whole domain industry, re marketing domains. I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot of people who contributed, but Monkey did a great job and he said, We're having the primo Number one best names auction in New York City, the capital, Madison Avenue marketing. This is the place to put the best domain names in the world to set the best of the best. Okay, And that's why I said, I've gotta have seniors in there, so I put it in, put a high price on it. Um, e got bit up a little more, and, uh and I sold it there with the option. And so I've got a book that I've written on domain names. I've never published it, but that's the first chapter is a day in New York, and it's just kind of goes through the process of me sitting there and watching the domain name sold and and, you know, I had to step out and he kind of have a moment. And I had a couple again good friends of mine that stopped buying and, you know, and, uh and checked in on me. But one of the amazing things and for all the viewers that are watching this now and in the future. Veteran, uh, domain investor from New York, upstate New York. And he was at the show and we were having the last days breakfast. So it's kind of an afterglow. You know, The big auction has happened. All the contents happened. Some people are heading back and you're just sitting there a tables or 8 to 10. This is a Rick Schwartz of traffic Conference. We were just sitting there and he goes, you know, go Congratulations. And I said, Yeah, and he says the price and he says her words, you know? And that is the essence of what makes remaining especially high end power domain ng. I think I just invented that term. I invented that term trademark copyright using your own risk power domain. It's a word. You know, It's a word, and you're buying a word. And, you know, I've always remembered that that comment, you know that that's what that's what happened. Film was buying a word. So if you look at one word dictionary, domain names, the number one place to invest, Um, you know, you're buying a word. Um, Page, uh, what do you do when this kind off crazy amount of money comes in? Do you try to grow it to 10 million and then 100? Do you go bananas and invested all well, No. I mean, it had been a long it had been three or four years, and I had partners who who were in the name with me on and And I guess the decision we had to make is whether to whether to stop, you know, or whether to keep going. And at the time we kept going, Now that was the worst time to keep going. Oh, I I kept going in the face of five months later, I'm on a flight to Brisbane, Australia, for a domain name conference called Traffic Down Under. And, um, this has been just a great conference planned out with social events and everything. And then we had Lehman Brothers, and then we had Merrill Lynch going under on. Then we had the financial crisis where people weren't sure if the money in their money market fund was safe. And brokers on Wall Street were advising people toe own farm light because they could always grow their food if the financial system collapsed. And that was the headline as I'm flying down to Australia for a domain name conference hoping that virtual property in domain names would be a store of value on your domain name that like like everything you could say. Oh, What do you mean? You should have just stayed with him. Page. I mean, look how they came back. But in a world where if you wanted liquidity and dollars, didn't have a lot of liquidity, e I mean, money market fund assets didn't have a lot of equities, you know? It was a tough run there from 0709 for domain names way the same time that I needed Was that How do you survive put the pedal to the metal a lot more. Did you let some really good domains go? No, I'm not worth it. Just buy more Kaur. Okay, Now in, you know, to I let I let a bunch of stuff go that I bought in 00 no one. But, you know, I had tasted a great victory. So I looked at it and said, Well, when the financial crisis happens and people come out of it, what better way to come out of it than to earn money with an online business? So I was very positive. And in hindsight, I was too positive on the power of individuals operating online business, thinking that they could do that with a very low cost of entry, some sweat and bones, you know, sweat and effort. And then more and more people would have online businesses. Right now. They would be running because you didn't know what else was gonna work. You know what I mean? Couldn't invest in stocks or bonds or real estate or anything. It was all tanking, you know, housing prices dropping 50% in most of the U. S. You know, and so anyway, so I kept trying toe build the infrastructure to sell domain names at scale. Um, but, you know, it was it was a tough time, So Wow. But then so many opportunities came. Yes. So you kept buying the names I was still early on. That would have been better to sell everything going on vacation for 10 years. Because it's only banned in the last couple of years, at least from a U S centric point of view that the animal spirits of growing and buying and startups and company having excess money where they want to buy a better domain name, you know, that they've always wanted, um that wasn't there for seven or eight years. Yeah. I mean, it was all about cutting costs. It was all about a lot of the entrepreneurs. I know a lot of the company owners I know. Just keeping their employees paid, keeping everybody paid. There was no future. You know what I have to do for the future? And in the midst of that, our domain in ministry had a period of growth with the keyword search names. That was a big trend from like, 10 to 2015. Tell me the search results tell me the cost per click, multiplying together. That's what the names worth. I'll pay 40% of that, you know? And so that was a big trend. And then we got the Chinese numbers trend. Which thing I never liked about the Chinese. Three letter number trends. Waas. I still believe to this day that it came about from hacking from them, being ableto hack people's accounts that network solutions mostly where they could call in. They could social hack by guessing the school. They went to guessing their mother's maiden name, telling the person that all some big, long story, I think they were able to grab hold of these three letter domain names and one of the reasons they were worth stealing or worth hacking was that there was a liquid market for him. You know what I mean? Where you could turn them around and and not just be a long term domain name investor that hope the company came and bought it. You know that there was a liquid market to do it. And so, um you know, So that was obviously a huge trend and with number trend and the letter trend took over in 16 17 and 18. You couldn't sell anything else to people. Winners couldn't sell anything because they're like I could buy a four letter today for 900 it's gonna be worth 1200 a month. So they'll be like, I'm not gonna buy anything else. Why would I buy anything else? This is absolutely and and it did. It went up from a typical four letter to 1000 to 1214 116 102,000. Whatever. You know what I mean? And unless you knew when that Bell was going to ring, that is over, you know, I mean, it looked like that was the absolute greatest thing in the world because they had liquidity for letters are awesome. When you bring liquidity when asset like a domain name that's normally not liquid, it changes everything. Now you picture that you could buy stuff today and sell it tomorrow. No, I can buy it cheap, you know, offer somebody half of what it's worth and sell it for what it's worth. And I'm just gonna make having nothing to do with remaining just having to do with, you know, cash management and that type of thing, so but that safety net that you would get from thinking that your names were liquid was really captivated. And I think what's happening in the Dominican market now is that people are trying to find those spots trying to find those spots where I believe most people that say they're investing in believe that most people, when they say they're investing in domain names, they're not. It's like they're at a carnival and they're paying a dollar for three baseballs to knock down some buckets, and if they do, they win the big prize. And if they know that's money out of my pocket, that's just, you know, it's an expense. It's it's, you know, it was worth the entertainment of seeing if I could get big stuffed animal. I don't even care about the money I spent on it. I think that's what's happening. They say they're investing, but really you're buying a lot of you. You're just hoping it happens to you. You're just hoping it happens to you, so people are looking for anything that has liquidity. So when I think about what are the strongest wholesale friends now? Because I do a lot of wholesale business where I sell the other domain investors. I probably need to do, you know, thousands of dollars every month where I'm selling. I'm buying names and selling him. So if I'm buying him from 40 to $80 I'm selling him for 150 to $300. But I need that turnover. And you are You are actually in the wholesale market party. Absolutely. Uh, Page, if you could explain it, please. Okay. As the wholesale market liquidation market and then the end user market, if you could explain for the viewers who haven't got a clue how the divine industry works, please. Thank you. So we go to buy a name. We don't want anyone else competing with us. We want to buy it for the cheapest we can way. Either one. A hand registration hand registered a three bucks with way. Want a coupon code to be four bucks? Way one, free privacy, a free one page website and and, uh and I'll tell you later about top coin where you can get frequent flyer rewards for buying. You're doing it anyway, um, or we want a bid in an option. And we wanna bid on the best domain names. But we don't want any competition. We don't want anyone to bid against us because we're us. I'm me. What else should be there to buy? I wanna be the only one and the auction company. They, of course, want to make the most money they can. But I don't think they should do that. They should please me. They should make sure that there's no bitters, their toe it against me. So we try to get names for eight or 50 or 200 or one word dictionary name for 2000 or 3000 or 6000, and the moment we buy it, close up the office for the day, walk out the door. We say I made $20,000 today. You know, I bought this $2000 dictionary. Word name. I know it's worth 20. It was on Domain Sherpa. If it was on 27 they would say Boom, that's where 20 grand. No problem they paid to. So they have 2000 less of cash when they started the day with, but they think they have a $20,000 asset. 20 grand. No problem. In fact, it might be worth more than 100. That's the retail market. You just put that name in your inventory of $20,000 of perceived value or maybe 100. You bought it for 2000. You put a name in your inventory for for 3000 retail and you bought it for 40 bucks. People try to get the thousands of dollars for their names, and then when they're when they're tired or they need money or they got to get out, they say also. And what you'll hear him say is, Well, I know I want 5000. I'd be willing to take 2500 from another domain er on a on a quick sale. It's not going to get 2500 for another domain. Ironic quick sale. It's going to get something very similar to what you paid for it. 40 to 60 to 80 to 120 bucks. So when you think about the same name, Okay. Oh, is that $3000 retail? Yeah. Go on. Go on. Sorry. Yes. The same name is a $3000 retail name that's worth $150 wholesale. If you need money today, you're going to get something around 150 to $250 for it. And if you can wait and have the capital in the money in the bank to wait for someone to come to you and say I want that name, how much is it? You've got a chance to get 3000. That's why I think the best domain, er's or ones that aren't doing a full time. They have another job that's paying their paycheck. They invest in inventory and they can wait to get those offers. No, I mean, don't wait with every day, but if you know it's a good name way. But for me, if I want to create liquidity and income, I've got to sell it. The Wholesaler What? I'm betting on what I've been able to do over the years because I watched the drop market because I catch names at seven different places because I watched eight other expired name services because I shop on five marketplaces because I have some ways to by hand registration, names of workout. Then yes, a lot of times I am buying names at 8 to 10 bucks, selling them for 69. 79 99. But on the whole, um, you know, I create liquidity. Uh, pay me. You know, the baby for domain to make sure that I don't have to sell my best names at a low price. Because because, you know, I need four grand this month, You know what I mean? So I gotta go take your name and for the 100,000 and tell it for four. Many of the four. That's about what you'll get. So I think for me when I'm just basically, the customers that use me the most are the ones that can't spend all that time and effort looking at all the market places, the by names. And so for them, if I could buy them and they can have, they gotta pay a mark up. You know, they're not very They're like, Well, Page can just So So it does for what you bought it for. Well, no, you know, I mean, but but, you know, for them they haven't had to go through the effort. They just get to look at my name's and a buy it Now, whether it's on domain outlet dot com or whether I'm selling on a name. Pros threat. They don't have to wonder if someone's gonna outbid them. They don't have to wonder if the price is going to change. You know it's sitting right there for a price, and some people can't do business that way. They're like, If I know pages making money, there is no way I can buy that because I know he got it for 60 bucks, so there's no way I should pay 120. He's making money. So I'm the sap and he's smart. A lot of people won't buy for me because of that, basically saying, I need to have turnover, you know, to pay for my income to pay for my lifestyle. And so while I'm looking for awesome, big, super fantastic names, I'm seeing a lot of names, and I know I could trade, and so those are the ones I sell. So I put up a list on name pros that maybe 300 names price from $39.49 dollars up to $99 and I'll usually South 20 or 30 and I've got a group of people that buy from me, and I send them advanced notice. You know, I say, Hey, just wanna let you know I'm putting up a list and buying off forums, I think, is one of the best ways to acquire domain names. You gotta look through a lot of junk, but you're finding people that want to sell. Okay, Now you can go on name pros and put your terrible name for $5000 on a thread and you'll never get any activity. But if I've got 300 names and I've got 15 souls, people see that because they see that there's, you know, 27 responses. So they know that some people found stuff there. Do you use them? Do you list them as the whole list? All 300 together. And I could go, Daddy, appraisal something. Okay, I'm sorry. Go. Daddy. Estimates of value there is. They're not appraisals. There are hypothetical estimate of value that may or may not be correct. Please do your own due diligence and buying domain names. Domain names may or may not make you money in the future. Here's my decision. So eso you are putting eso you are putting around 300 domain names a month on, Let us say testable. Uh, name, process, name pros. I was thinking, usually twice a month and then twice a month, two times 1 50 or and various. If there is, and then you sell around 20 of them, if I do it twice, I'll sell for you. Okay? So on 40 of them. And usually you double the investment. Yes. So you buy them for 60 and then, Okay, That tells me two things. One, I know that not everyone's gonna buy all my name. So I still have plenty of names that I'm waiting to make 100 times my money on or something like that. So for me, it just doesn't matter which one cell? I've got 300 names that I bought it. 60 bucks that I want to sell for 3000. And I said 20 of them. I'm not going to remember what those 20 names for, you know? I mean, because I've got another 3000 of Have you sold anything today? No. Well, I don't have anything running a name. Pros, but no, I haven't. I got a couple enquiries, couple enquiries on which names? Some dot L a names, some data lay names or we'll get to Dr Lay back. Okay, on what was the last domain name you've sold? I sold. Uh, well, im tricky about saying what I sold. I'll tell you, because maybe the me the buyer is the buyer is everything. And if I somehow said it and this was transcript ID and someone saw it to me, so I I sold a vanity name. Meaning it's either a first name or last name and dot l A for 1000 months. Oh, I wont tell you which one it waas but a lot of the business we doing about l. A or what it called vanity names because you can still get your first name or your last name dot L A. So whether you're in Los Angeles or Latin America or your company's last name is Smith or Jones, you can you don't you're Smith. That l A your first name. Paige paige dot l a go to page dot L. A. And those were still available? No way. They're available in dot com. But if you're a realtor in l. A. Your whole markets in L. A. And you can get Matthews because that's your last name? Matthews dot l. A. That's a pretty attractive because you only needed toe work in L. A. You don't need it. You don't need to pay the price get against every person. That might one Matthews dot com when all you need to do is markets. Now, I remember I had Stephanie dot co dot UK and a friend of mine loved the name so much he actually came over to my place. Negotiate price on £4000. I thought, Okay, he's a friend of mine. You go. You got to do it. You didn't do bad on that name. You could tell he was serious, but no, I have had about three. I had one in person sales where I was negotiating with the guy, and he didn't tell me. He lived an hour away from me, and he showed up with the cast years. Check for nine grand within 60 minutes. So, you know, that was That was and I said, I still talk to this day, has become a good friend, but we always have that story again. And these work. What's that and did it work. So he came up to you with 9000 in cash? Yes. No cash your set. I'll cashier's check. Okay. It's tough to take gas. Why? Banking regulations on this? I don't want to go to my bank and deposit $9000. They already don't know what I'm doing. If I tell him I invest in domain names, they probably think I'm a drug dealer. So if I show up with $9000 cash, don't know I fell in love with city domain names City? Yeah, US cities. Yes. And? And I perceive them to be scarce, so I probably overpaid. But again, I thought they were gonna be businesses. So I wrote recently on my blog's at D n dot biz. Uh, most dangerous name for a domain investor is one that you think you might develop. Okay, you over pay with the rationalization that I'm going to make it back because even though it isn't worth, that is a domain name. You convince yourself that you're a nen user, you can afford to pay mawr because you're gonna be operating in business on that name. And so that's what I thought I'd be doing? I thought we would have better technology because I'm not a coder, and I'm not a creator. So I thought we would have what I call a city in the box. I easy software where I could buy a city name, plug it in, have a directory, have, ah, a search. You know, a certain guy, local connections and everything. And so I thought it would just be a matter of, you know, buying the city name when it was available. You know, putting it on an operating platform and then rinse and repeat and do it over over again. So that's probably the area that I've overpaid in the most and the money wise. What about those? Come on. Oh, by thousands, if not tens of thousands. In some cases where their dot coms Yes, yeah dot com is is and was. And where the liquidity is, which ones can you give us? A sample off the domain name? You have a g o domain. You have oh, paid. It would be too painful to say it in public, giving you a lot of it. I'm giving you that. Paid tens of thousands of dollars too much for city dot com. Domain names. That's probably about as far as I'm willing. Tens of thousands? Yeah, eyes it really that bad? Still, that name could be very sellable now. Well, I sold it for tens of thousands. Less than I'm on a for So what was the lost 25%? A little more. A little bit more. Was it painful toe? So only when people ask about do you visit that? The the main aim Do you visited? Thanks for them. Now, once the once I sell a domain name, it's gone. Um, if it if it ever came back to my mind and he's like an ex girlfriend, you know? Still no, that's probably the service toe at other human beings. It's just that, you know, the purpose of buying a domain name is toe own it and sell it. And even if you know, you hopefully sell it for money that you may. But you really can't use your cost. Who, um, determine what the names worth because you'll probably hang on too long. If I if I might have demeaning for $1000 and I will get to your question the person who asked about monetizing because I want to talk about monetizing. But if I by the name for for $2000 and I got a good offer for 1200 I thought that was about, you know, there's a good offer for me to be able to reinvest that money. I'd sell it even though I took a lot. I'd sell it if I bought it for 4000, had to sell for two. But as long as they don't make me give back the money. When I bought a name for 25 bucks and sold it for 3000, then I would be myopic to think that I could only make money in domain names. But I could never lose money. So there's no difference to me about whether I got $3000 and I paid six for it. Whether I got $3000 I paid 100 for it. You know, it's was that a good price compared to the realistic prospects for that name in the future? And and so even though it's tough, I'm I've had some names. I paid eight or 9004 that I sold for 2000, but for me. It's like a long as they don't make me give back the three or $4 million I've made selling thousands of domain names for 100 times when I bought for him. Then if it's creating liquidity for me to go buy something better, I'm gonna sell that name for me. Selling is all about replacement bag. And I take that money. Okay, That's a good thought. Yes, and put it to work. But I want to get to the question about monetizing. Yes, s. So here's the question. Thank you all. Uh, Tom cloths. I think I'm saying that right. That's That's an I. Do you monetize domains? If yes, how And is it working also, how many domains have you developed because they're good questions. I'll take the second one first. I wish I've developed more domain names, but I'm just Here's the two problems I've had with developed. You pay somebody who you think it's your vision, you lay everything out. You tell them what you want him to dio and they show up and they deliver something that is completely opposite of what you wanted. And so I've been doing this for 20 years. so that got me off paying people because it just never works. So then then when I'm developing myself, I get to those little stupid places where I just can't get over the hump. And it stops me because I have so many other names to manage. So I wish I would have developed more domains, those domain names, that I've even even the simplest thing. Putting an affiliate program on one domain name. And I and I made 2 to $300 a month from doing that. Um, even just that little bit of level of development. I thought 15 years. I had to do that 15 years ago. And I think the same opportunity exists where I believe in the future. Yes, we should develop our debate now. Right now, I only monetize them with parking and the days when parking was working for everybody. For millions of dollars a year, I was the one guy that didn't care about part. I made my money selling to me. Now we've switched back to No one was making any money and parking. So they all became domain resellers, right? And it was all about the landing page and having your price and the right spot so people would buy. But I think we've come to the end there. So I've gone back to parking all my domain names and what I'm looking for. There is every domain name my own. I've moved toe one parking company for the month of January, and I have to identify. I have to the top 20 to 25 names that are earning more than 3 to $5 per month, and you may not realize it. But earning 3 to $5 a month is a pretty good parking. Now, if you bought a one word now or you bought, you know, stocks dot com, you're going to do a lot better than that on your part. But if you're just trying to find a name that either somehow has some links pointing to it that bring traffic or some type in traffic and it monetize is the only way to do it, I believe, is you have to just put all your names with the parking company and see which ones consistently do it. And then you take those names and you put them in a separate place that says The purpose I own these names is to park them and earn revenue. And there is no better domain name own than a name that earns at least two times its registry. That way you have some buffer because you could keep that asset forever. So right now I'm monetizing with party. I use park logic. Um, and that's my goal is to take all my name's now. I'll probably only do on 6000 names. $100 a month. That's how bad parking is got. Um, I wish we had better solutions. I can't believe we don't have better solution. What's the traffic? Couldn't you sell pop unders? Couldn't yourself traffic. So you you should they should generate some traffic. These domain names, right? That should but should doesn't make me any money. Now that that's the thing. Once you have 6000 domain names, let us say so. How much? How much do you think that's a generator you could sell e I have no idea. I wouldn't trust the number if they give. Okay. So I guess what I'm saying is, what was I saying? Oh, going forward. What? You're gonna see me right about it? D n dot biz is alternative methods of monetizing your domains. I believe, between affiliate programs and specific targeted ads that we should all be doing better because we're we've all given control of monetizing our domain names to Google. And that's the one company that competes with us. Steal any traffic that might come through the browser to our domain. Dings. Absolutely so I don't think that's the future, all right. It's so addictive because it's so easy. Toe upload a spreadsheet of a bunch of names and make 40 bucks a month for not doing any work. If someone says you're making 40 bucks a month for doing no work, but if you invest 50 bucks, you could double your traffic income. Most domain er's won't do it. Andi, regarding the same question. Are you in partnerships with Maybe with some domain names? Have you I'd like to be. But as I mentioned earlier, we haven't had the animal spirits where people were looking to grow and people I thought we got really close in 0708 toe. Having some of the lead gen companies come in. There's so much waste and fraud in the monetizing business that for those of us who think we have really good assets, Okay, say I have an asset Pittsburgh mess with the the only attorney you know, this cancer disease in the U. S. You see it advertised all over the place. Click is like $97. If someone clicks it, I would rather have my domain name wait around all year to get one click. Someone who's actually looking for a Missy Oma. I can't even say the word attorney in Pittsburgh, but Google may say no. We want to put a bunch of other stuff on that page, and they make us 40 cents or 30 cents. So, yeah, I'd like to have my perfect world every domain name that I bought today. I would have it with its most optimal monetization method before I went to bed that night. Goal that I'll be talking about this year on the end of this is if you're gonna hold it for a year and you just paid whatever price you paid for the domain name or whatever price you paid to renew it, you paid it. Eight bucks today. You better start monetizing that name tomorrow. Most people wait until the month before it renews or after news and say, Oh, I'll sell it, they can. So I've got to get really good now I think there's products and services out there for us. We just haven't found him yet, and no one's walk people through how to do it yesterday or the day before. You're gonna have a guest on the show. Adam Dick. Yes, Adam and I did the Domain Sherpa show for years. Adams Deion Forum is how I learned most of what I learned early into May. No, Adams had a bunch of problems with a lot of things out there, but the number one thing I always had my problem with Adam is he was right when he said Your domain should be businesses. But I thought that sometimes he painted a false picture of how easy and successful it would be to make thousands of dollars per month from one domain name when I think it would have been enough to make hundreds of dollars or maybe even tens of dollars, that that had to be the first step for people it could name from doing nothing, earning enough so you can renew it forever and then build upon that. I think that maybe there was a false picture painted of how successful you could be with no effort. And so I'm still a homer and very positive on domains and positive on both development. Everyone that tried both development. They thought it all meant name is gonna running on Google so high they're gonna make so much money. But we have to send our expectations lower, so that will be successful at earning $10 a month, $30 a month. But more than that, you're gonna see when I ran this affiliate program and one of my websites, you get an email that says someone just bought $63 worth of shirts from your website and you made $6.10 percent. So if I look at my emoji domain names and I have the Jamaican flag and I build a site that lets me have Jamaica shirts Jamaica soccer Jamaica pins Jamaica Cups on, I can make $30 a year. Right? And I could do that with minimal effort. I've gotta dio one the British flag. You do. I bet you do a lot of people and I hope that answered your question. I monetized now with parking because we don't have any other option. But I really want to get I really want to help the main investors. I not just telling you. And you can go to this site and monetize your domain names. And you go to that site and this company says our products going to do it all for you with no effort. I actually want to show you what I did with the domain name. How you make it? How much are you? Sorry. How much are you asking for it? You see, I'm oh closed up Now How much are you asking for a dollar sign also, I'm really good 2500 us? I'm Lynne, 25. They just made that name up. You asked me before. How doe I decide? 25 $2500. $2500? You could be the dollar sign Ws emoji God! And you still haven't sold it? No toe all the watches Or maybe live watches Or what? If you ever wanted to create a classified ads website and I do have a classified Web ads website I would leave the dot co dot UK Horrible name. It is an okay, but still bad. I'm chasing another name for it. Orange, orange, orange slice. Anybody Contact page. How? Take the name right now. Uh huh. 2500 for dollar sign. Doctor ws prices good for 48 hours and you can put up and you can put yourself on the map along with with craigslist. You can you can. You can put billboards just now when we do imagining just anybody you know, you and your domain name. You can put up billboards all they have Thio. One more thing on modernization. Yes. Sorry. Think modernization is heading in the right way for domain investors because forever Google was the only choice. Toe park through not Google. Tooth Park through a parking provider is all they could ever say. And your other choice was Is it like this? Look, thistles. A potential buyer. I'm serious. I know the guy. He's he's the owner off awake shop in Ireland off a chain off a small chain off five or six Vape shops in Ireland. Is it? Is it like this? I don't know what you mean. How can you see the comment on the screen once asked me about the dollar sign. Yes. Is that the dollar? Sign the emotion Mine isn't the symbol Its's green. It's Ah, symbol. It's Ah Let me let me find my emoji on my smartphone Let us see. Mhm. Yes, The green screen e to share my screen. I keep forgetting that. Yes, And if somebody wants to buy it live that the cent discount. No discount. Add 20%. Uh huh. That's right home. And I got to find the right one. Yes. Have you got any waiting? You know? Okay. Okay. Okay. Now I gotta go. I gotta go to the O. Here we go. Oh, this one. Green green dollar. Yeah, I'm trying to find it here. I said yeah, so far. So for me, a lot of what you're going through now is like on the faces, any of the faces that are on the top row or more valuable because they're easier to get. Thio, Um, for a lot of people, especially kids, they use emojis so much that their favorite ones, they're always right there on their own screen. So they're not always looking for him. because their favorite ones or right there I actually can't find the correct green dollar sign I've always struggled page with with finding emojis. Can I always wanted the search bar or or maybe maybe a mike? No, I can't see it here. Oh. Oh, the pages from some reason. Eso Good evening. Good evening or good afternoon. Page will be back Baseball day back base will be back in a minute with a see what happened. The connection got interrupted. So beginning the dealing and we are over here at $27 b. We plan. We do plan to dio live interviews with the leading the main name investors on influences. And I will enjoy. I will personally enjoy every e was there stream and I typed the emoji into the screen that I was doing the broadcast. So Okay, now I'm gonna do air screen your screen. Yes, that's all the best it is, Toe. Yes. Okay, Yes. I'm gonna go back right now. I'm gonna stop sharing speaking so back to monetization because I think it's a great question and it z It's where I think we need to go. Because all the guys who were in domain ing early had traffic income to support their domain portfolios, and there was no doubt that their names workmen because every asset that's worth anything except gold, its value is based upon the future revenue stream it can provide. When you have a future revenue string tied to your asset, you're not relying simply on its hard core value, and once you sell it, it's gone. You earn the money each year from parking, and you always have an asset that's worth some multiple of your parking revenue. Well, I believe that in the next five years we can turn around the equation of parking revenues going down, down, down, toe up, up, up. That will change the prospects for many domains because it was nice when I used to get a check for 1215 118 100 a month first of every month, and that allowed people to do what do you think? The money interested with their parking revenue? They both more domains, absolutely. And they and they park them straight away. And so and so I think. But it's it's so confusing for me because the second thing that I think about parking um, I'll talk about this on some some discussion panels. I think upcoming is. That's that you could believe. You can't believe. Okay, does someone could make up stats about their domain? Or they could be sending traffic to it by buying ads. And then once you buy it and don't buy ads, you get no more traffic. Okay? Yes. So there can be some badly is yes. So you need to find a trustworthy seller. But the problem is a trust for the seller is also usually a smart seller. Okay, We don't have too many honest people that air done. I think smart people want to be honest because they plan to be in the business for months and years. You know, going forward and you aren't if you keep selling traffic portfolios that don't earn what they're going to dio eso the ones that air riel look like. They're price too high. And the ones that air faked our price low because they appeal to your greed. But even if the guy is faking, I'm getting it for two times revenue, and this is going to be a winner. And so you throw out all your logic and your decision making, and you pay with the prospects that even though it's kind of weird and kind of soft and ever, you don't know whether to trust it, you buy it, and the most of time you find it doesn't work. So where I found most of the business is done in parking is trusted sellers dealing with trusted buyers. I mean by that is someone could be a good buyer of domain names and get him part and get him set up and present the portfolio in a good way. That shows what it's doing, but their purpose is to sell it, not hang around for the next 10 years to get the revenue. So the idea is to find people like that, and then if you are a person like that that's constructing, ah, 40 or 50 name portfolio that does 70 or $80 a month, then you want to find buyers who do want to put their capital toe work there on a return on their capital over the next so many years, and they want to be able to know that the last portfolio they bought from you is working out pretty good so therefore they're more trustworthy toe by the next. There's a caveat to every story. You gotta be careful for the seller who sells you a little one. That's good. A medium one that's good and then sells your huge one. And it's terrible. So anyway, there's, you know, there's a lot to learn out there, but I think that, um, there's a if I'm a contrarian on, I wanna look at a part of domain ing, um, that most of the new investors that read a book that said you could buy a name for 10 bucks and sell it for 1000 don't know about its part two. And the guys that really do know about parking they've gotten stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger. So you'll see. Like Andrew Roesner just started a new newsletter. That's four people that understand the value of traffic names, and so they may be names that you look at. It will say I wouldn't pay a dollar for that. But based upon their back link profile based upon the characteristics of the traffic that people know is going to that name, they see some of those names that you wouldn't pay a dollar for as slammed down $30,000 domain ing's. Yeah, I mean so one of the ways that people in another area besides flipping domains that people could learn about and get strong at is this area of traffic domain names. You know how to find them, how to buy them. And then e s. Yes, yes. High authority. Domain name, sloop purposes. Absolutely. Now, I would be a fool fool to jump in to a forum and hear the words high authority. And someone says this is the high authority name and without knowing anything about it, pay someone five or $6000 Because I told me it was the high authority. Then, you know, you know, you have to educate yourself on. You know, one of the things like that. So what I what I'm not encouraging is everyone Just switch over there because everyone will just you'll start seeing. Everyone will say that their names, the high authority, you know what I mean? Because they know that's what people want. So but I am trying to pay attention to it. I think because I buy names are very specific areas. It's impossible toe watch every trend, you know? I mean, when I go look to buy domain names that go Daddy options if you're trying to buy Brand Abel's Geo's Hi paper click games, vanity names, short names, dictionary names, legion names, you know, I mean, trying to stay on top of all those themes, all price levels. I'll buy a cheap name or I'll buy a $5000. You know, it's hard. So I've brought most of my buying into specific areas, and that's where I feel like I'm I'm poised. Or if I can monetize one, I could monetize four or 500 you know? I mean, in the same place. And then if I could sell one, I can be good at a sales process that could sell for 500. So for me, that's what that's for. Mhm. Okay. And now we have ah, question like this. Uh, do you understand it? You ever sell domain bundles like my name like name dot com? Yeah. Uh, so that would probably e think most buyers and I just had a client that I built the website for do this yesterday. Said, don't I need to buy the net in the yorg and the variation with the plural is and all that stuff, and they convinced themselves that their project is so valuable that they need to buy everything and then five years later they dropped. So as of right now, I use a different strategy. I don't package them together when I sell them, because I want to get the com sold, done money in the bank. And then I wanna be able to go back a month or two later and say I also have the net and maximize my price for that. Now if I thought that selling him the net in the ord could close my comment a higher price, I do it. So I think it's a good strategy to think about. I will tell you what's more important in my opinion than having the net on the ord is having social media handles of the name yourself absolutely, and because it's hard to do, you won't hear anyone talking about it because even me, when I say it, I'm like, Well, I'm saying this and most of the names I have I don't have the social media handles for for someone's taken. But if I was starting right now, and I wanted to sell brand herbal domain names and I bought tipple or zoo pole or dip or something like that. I would look and see if I could get the social media handles, because I think that's much more value. Um Thio offer as, uh, it's good to keep something in the back. Or even when you think you've negotiated the price with the customer they could of pay. And they're just not sure where they say they're partner as some different thoughts. Or could they get in for a best price? And it's nice to have something in the background to be able to say, Well, let me ask you a question. What if I included the social media and and most of times I'll say, I never thought about that and they'll realize that if they bought the name and they had to offer someone 2 to 3 to $5000 for the social media handle, you know that would change their pricing. So if you have it and and the names worth more than $10,000 and you want to keep the net in the ord, I think that probably makes sense and try to sell them together. Um, but if you don't, I don't think it's a problem. Okay, on here is a thought. You see, Here we go. Uh, undress If I said that, right, What do you do if one day, all domain names will be replaced with matrix code and redirect. So I do believe there are some *** recently in the ICANN DNs armor. I think because of icann's greed in the ordeal in the new com deal, they've they've they've announced the people that there's billions of dollars to be made in operating domain name registries and domain name systems, and they've drawn new entrance. So whereas before I wouldn't be diversified in 2000 and one, I did investigate the alternate routes Space. Now I think I don't know is much about the matrix and redirection that you're talking about. I am doing some work with the Blockchain and domains on the Blockchain, but I think even though earlier doctors think trends happen fast, you look in the US, for instance, that the battle between cable television and satellite it's taken 30 years, and both technologies were still being used. So I am still 85% dot com and I would beam or if I didn't have dot l a and Emojis, You know what I mean? But I don't think Tom is going to go away, but I am starting to look at some of the *** in the armor and the Blockchain DNAs, and the one that I'm looking at right now is unstoppable. Domains, I think has a chance. So I may puts on my poker chips on the roulette table down on double zero and learn about it Not knowing if unstoppable is gonna be the victor or not e t h or something else but to be aware of it. And, uh, you've got some experience in the Blockchain. Well, some we turn if we turn your camera around. Is it okay to tell them what they see? Some some miners Page, have you? Have you ever thought off your own extension? Come on, I page. But the page. Oh, actually, yes. The page can be Yeah, so dot Google runs out page. I thought it was nice that they did that in tribute to me. It is a live TLT. Thank you. Understand? And I'll Now I've written down the words matrix and redirect and based upon his question E that'll that'll be exciting to look into. So and have you ever seriously explored the possibilities off owning your own extension? Well, I tried to own dot kids. I applied for dot kids K ideas. There would be a safe space for kids on the Internet, and I applied for that with I can back in 2001 was apparently number eight, and they only took the top seven. This is when they gave out is, uh, info dot museum and some other ones. And so when when I didn't get that and they said, Well, we'll be given out new one soon Who knew that would be 13 years? I'm glad I didn't keep paying my overhead. I looked at alternate routes. I looked at operating a C C T L D. Under kids that ws. And then I went to the island of where I didn't know. I went to Hawaii to talk to representatives from the Island of Care Boss, which is dot K I and I was going to try to manage dot K I to be dot kids a safe space for kids on the Internet. So when you say I've ever thought about doing my own, But I experienced with I can was so revolting during that period that I said, I will never put my future or my life from my business in their hands by applying for a new tail D. So I did not apply for DOT kids. Now I realized that my whole portfolio is based upon. I can, when my opinion have proven that they are out for themselves and no one else, even though they're a public benefit corporation. Oh, yes, I've now had to look at, um, you know, what are the effects of what I can is doing on my own portfolio? And right now they're not good. My costs are going to go up 7% a year. Okay, that's that's That's interesting. Don't delay. Yeah, which our country extension is it? Country code for Laos for loss? Uh huh. On it is actually highly adapted for Los Angeles. Yes, yes, it's always it's been a part of the marketing plan since about 1 4002. Um, it's very good for the country of Laos I believe they're able to monetize in essence and national asset. The T L. D is actually owned by the country of Laos, and we market it and I run for the company that does the markets globally. I managed the marketing in Los Angeles. And so in the last 3 to 4 years, we've been able to grow, you know, a pretty substantial group of websites. Um, but we do share my screen and we're starting to get really good acceptance, you know, in l A. Because it is so easy to say dot l A. It instantly identifies you with us with the number one city in the world because l A has changed a lot. L a is now the number one city for stop for style passion. So this is a map with you that shows all the websites in Los Angeles that use the dot L A. Not all that we're building this about 50 names of week so we can show that you're not alone, that other people are doing it and you have such you have like, 99% of the names taken in dot com. You can get in dot l a. So whether it's your first name or your last name or the business category you're in or brand herbal or, you know, whatever you want to talk about in domain names if you're Onley marketing to Los Angeles, then you don't need toe by, um, you know the complete domain. You know, if you're this dim here, this is use a fitness dot L A. So if you're use a fitness dot L A and your fitness stores air in Los Angeles, you don't need necessarily. If you weren't able to get us a fitness dot com, you can run with us a fitness dot L. A. And it says that your local because fitness in Los Angeles is completely different than fitness and the rest of the world much higher level of fitness, you know? And so L. A is a very unique in any any nightclubs. Yes. Let's say where's our Where's your category? And where can we see them? That's it. I love L A. I love that. L A Okay, let's see here. Uh, we blow this up, and so what I dio is I do the math. I do different articles each week showing different companies that are using dot L A. And January of restaurants. We have, uh, pervade dot l a curiously curated provisions pervade dot l A. So you know what kind of rhymes? Pervade dot L A. It's a one word. Um, one of the other things we do is we have a Pinterest page that shows all of our sites. So here's animist cannabis dot L A. You know, locally grown about L. A is for things. Selfie been a food oasis. So a lot of people have jumped on board and said, Yeah, this makes sense for us, you know, our l a Forget what that one is, um, art dot L a modern housing. So there's a big trend of tiny housing and things like that. So what we've done is we I've tried to build community around people using dot L A. You see back where we are about people using it. But right now it's had to be hand to hand combat me going to meet ups and trade shows and things like that and telling people this story, and then they get it. When they go to get a domain name, their choice might be to be, um, you know, healthy food l a dot com or they can be. And they had to put the why on it for healthy because health food l. A. Was taken. Or they could be just health food dot l. A. And before someone even goes to their website and sees them in the search engine results and sees health food dot l. A. That's conveying the credibility that, yes, there about L. A. Because their domain name is dot L. A. There are probably a big company, or they're probably successful because they got a really good name early. And so it starts conveying things when people are still making the decision. Should I click on this link? And so that's what we help brands do is given that little boots from people are deciding. Should I even go to this website and then, especially on mobile devices, you're gonna have a shorter name. So, as much as everyone uses Google, how Google tries to trick you and do this other stuff So on mobile people are going back to direct navigation on their phone, and instead of having to get a 11 12 13 character dot com. You're getting page dot l a or go dot Ellen, Or if you're a law firm and your Warner Jenkins and Thompson your w l t dot L A. Your email address is super short. W l t dot l A So that's what we're seeing is people are appreciating the usefulness and the branding of being associated with dot l. A. On Did you are? You were saying, Wait, So who operates this? I love daughter lay I za company called dot l. A marketing. Uh, there's a company. And then and then it's run on the central nick platform. Central Nick, along with key systems where they merged with, has probably become one of the biggest registry operators out there, operating tens of new T LDS and country codes and everything. So be systems, uh, central neck or whether central Nike says, I think it's probably key system central neck. They've got so many companies in so many different areas, they run the registry, so it's robust. It's secure. We actually have some, um, technology transfer that's been made to run part of it in Laos so that they've got the benefit of, you know, doing that and things like that. And I think it's been a good sustainable, you know, positive thing for both registrants, the registry and for the home country. So I think it's a good model. Do you have some? Are you a partner off the ad at the company or employed by them or consultant? I'm a consultant to the company. Okay. In 2007 I bought a bunch of dot L a domain ings. I first saw dot L A on a bus in 2002 and loved. I was born in Los Angeles, lived in Los Angeles, love Los Angeles, and I really love dot l A. So that's what I always wanted to get. I love dot l A And so I have a lot of names and I kept encouraging them or thought what I thought some of the things they could be due to market better. And so, uh, working for them is allowed them to have a local presence in L. A. Where I met with the mayor's office. I met with the County Economic Development Commission with the Chamber of Commerce to try to put a face this thing called dot l a you know what I mean. And obviously, domain investors don't always have the best thing, but were members of the tourism board and so we've tried to be a good local citizen because, just like the mayor is promoting Los Angeles for companies to come relocate there and all kinds of stuff, I'm promoting it for the domain name. So, um, I was able to go with the Chamber of Commerce toe watching in D. C talk about Los Angeles, meet with some senators and some congressmen and talk about and just expounds the benefits because all the stuff that's happening in the U. S. And globally about, you know, different cultures, different peoples living together is all happening in Los Angeles first, you know, I mean, so when you talk about the trends that come in fashion or food or technology, startups or solutions to climate change, Ah, lot of that stuff is happening in Los Angeles. Um, and a lot of those companies are realizing that using a dot l A. That can be. I don't think they're climate change dot l A. But there's ah, maybe it's reduced carbon or carbon. You know, there's there's there's a whole incubator in the city of Los Angeles near downtown, where they're developing new technologies. They used dot L. A. And so you know it. It's catching on with those communities as well as just the average contractors doctors, restaurants especially, have taken with it real estate projects. You know, there's a there's a big factor is a big building called Pencil Factory that used to actually make pencils. And now it's like 700,000 square feet of office buildings and restaurants and everything they use pencil factory L. A. So anyway, it's really it's nice to be part of something is growing because of making the local connection. I think the same thing could happen with C c T L D s if they were like, for example, OK, but what returning Just telling, too. So let me get one more thing. So what I've tried to do with that L. A. Is I've tried to do what's called TLV manager, make it taste for managing and promoting a T l d like dot L A. Like I'm doing with emoji domain like I used to do with dot TV because we've never seen that done until the new T LDS came out because very sign doesn't spend any money market because they don't. They can't afford to have the profits lost because they make, you know, a billion dollars selling dot coms and their stock is worth 27 times that million dollars. So they invested a million dollars in marketing that would cut their market caps soon as they did it. So So we haven't seen that, and they haven't needed Thio. But I think one of the things I think is gonna happen in the next 10 years is you're gonna have to work a little harder to have your top level domain and be successful. You won't just be ableto let the registrar's through the marketing. So by doing this with dot L A. I'm able to build up, you know, some of the skills in promoting a top level domain name, which I think will be useful for other top level domain names in the future and a question. So regarding the l. A. I've been always curious as extensions, like thes when they're when Yes, yeah. Oh, that's That's even better that Z e was just curious. Are there some contracts or some agreements between Los Angeles and Laos regarding that, using the domain names just well, e think it goes beyond that. I think when you're when you have a contract with your registrar and you have the guaranteed annual right to renew that top level domain name, that's with the country of house. Of course, whether or not I do marketing is between independent company. But when when you run the when you buy your domain name, you're buying it from the country from, In essence, the official register register the official operator, which is the technology division of the country of us. So how is the market off? L. A eso You said that there are still many wakened names. Are they available for hundreds or off the market? I think No. We try to keep we. We have a lot of premium names, which we re sell, you know, for thousands of dollars. But we also have, um, a lot of very good availability. One of the reasons is our domains air expensive. They're about 35 to $50 a year, and that makes them very hard to board if you're not using them. And so I think we have very good availability because in many cases, someone hasn't. You know, if you wanna own a name for 10 years, that's 350 bucks. You know, you probably should be using it if you're going to spend that much. And so unless it's a you know, super great name. So most of the time when I goto trade shows and I say, Hey, let's look it up I think that's available now If it's real estate on L. A. It's gonna be taken. But if someone says that they market in Beverly Hills and they want to be Beverly Hills homes dot L. A. It's probably available. You know if if their name is Wendy Williams may be windy dot l a is taken, but Wendy Williams dot L. A. Is probably not taking the Williams dot com has probably taken in seven or eight extensions. You know, calm that Oregon a bunch of other ones. So we really do find that most people for their specific business name, the dot l A. Is usually available or generic words and vanity names. Maybe not on what are some premium names that you have? L a once like food dot l a and business dot l a and business l a and gold dot l a. So wow. So again, I have a motivation to make thought l a work both for the registry and for my own portfolio. And so, you know, it means I believe in it too. So e think we may have we meet. We have run up against the clock If we have any other questions, I'd love to bring him in, but that's that's awesome. Andi So there was There was a thing like this and it definitely out the two hours are over. Yeah. Yeah. So he basic questions. Google has so much power in the future. Seems like they're going to implement a lot of new things. Absolutely. I worry about Google all the time like go to the name and they will be redirected to a Matrix Co, but with the changeable name. So I know that they tried to move domain names out of search results, but it looks like that was temporary and they put them back in. I assume that they're going to do everything they can to own every spot of the Internet. But what I will tell you where there's hope, because I believe Google, when I started writing with this three years ago, is not delivering the goods to customers. They're not delivering search results customers, and they are a proprietary app that's delivering you the way Google wants to deliver you to restaurants, travel tickets, real estate and everything. And the more they come, in my opinion, proprietary, they're gonna lose their pervasiveness, and someone else is gonna out Google now may take 10 years or five years or three years, but I do not believe that they are solving the need of the customer. Sometimes I've called him six or $100,000,000,300 billion linked to Wikipedia. It's about what they are in some cases, except for the things that they're trying to sell. But, yes, there is a risk that Google will take over. But as Bigas, they are. They don't control everything, so they can't because if if if they did control everything, there'll be more and I trust against them. But they can still go back and say we only handle 3% or 9% or 11% or 6% of the web. So could they really institute something that would take over for everybody else and not still be built on the basic DNA? So, yeah, I think it's good to look into that. Now, The one place that I do play along with Google, Um, you know what? I'll leave that as a bonus as a as a tease for our next interview is the one place that I am playing along with you. So I believe that if you have me back, I'll start with that, okay? And for the last, your personal advice toe a new domain. Er, what you think is scarce is not as scarce as you think. You walk into our industry right now, you cannot duplicate the results of other people. If you see that someone bought a domain name for 100 bucks, you couldn't have bought it for 100 bucks at auction would have had been been 110. They would have been 120. You would've had to been 130. They would have been 140. So you cannot buy where you see something was purchased by someone else. because you may have taken the auction for $100 per 1000. Secondly, you cannot sell where you see other people has sold names as if it's to an end user. That end user is now gone. They don't need a name in this area to pay this price. Now, if you're dealing with commodities like one word names, four letter names and things like that, yes, you can have a market. I believe one of the fallacies of the other E books out there and the pitches and the raw raw stuff is you cannot duplicate the results that you see now you can. On the stock market, there's one apple. There's a lot of shares of Apple stock, and you could buy it here. You could buy here you could buy here, but in domain, names are different. So I would say that when you realize it's time everything you want to buy, you can't buy and everything you can buy you don't want. That's when your domain ing starts, and it's what you do. After that, that will determine whether you're successful. So that's my advice to demand or something. Thank you. Page on. See you next time. Next time. Thank you